Burned CD's

[Old School]

Hi All,
This subject is not related to the D8B directly, but it is related to an area most of us deal in. My complaint is that a car or home CD player is programmed to use 4X oversampling on a "pressed" CD, but only 2X oversampling on a "burned" CD. Oversampling is used during the analog to digital (A/D) and digital to analog (D/A) conversion processes in a digital recorder, sampler or playback device. Essentially, the sampling rate of the converter is multiplied to a very high rate (i.e. 4x oversampling puts the rate at 176.4 kHz). This accomplishes two things: First, it allows the anti-aliasing and anti-imaging filters on the converters to be much more gentle, which reduces phase distortion. Second, in a 4x oversampled system, it results in a 6 dB drop in noise (other rates result in more or less noise reduction).
So no matter how good your mix, if you duplicate your customers products for them(as I do) the product will not and cannot sound as loud or as good as a replicated CD.
I propose that the player itself cannot recognize the difference between burned and pressed and that the info telling it to use 4X oversampling is contained on the pressed CD's themselves. I am throwing all this out there in the hopes that someone has the technical equipment or expertise to verify this and possibly produce a file that can be added to our masters that will convince the players that this is a pressed CD.
Call me crazy but this is my hope.

Have a blessed day in Christ,
Mike W.

[Bruce Graham]

Hey Crazy!!!

Good and valid points!

I will do some research from my source of "Mad Scientists" and see what I can dig up!

Cheers
Bruce

[garrett21allen]

Hi crazy!!! I mean Mike

You do bring up a good point and I too would like to know
Even though my board is down. I hope not for long maybe Bruce can tell us something

Joe allen

[anyhorizon]

I cannot abide with this précis, Old School. I can make a CD perform any way I want it to with Toast or Waveburner or whatever.

Peter

[Old School]

Hi,
I think you misunderstand me. The CD players in cars and home systems will never play a burned CD of your material at it's full brilliance. This is a fact. It is the record companies way of insuring that their product has an edge over consumer copied CD's.

Have a blessed day in Christ,
Mike W.

[garrett21allen]

Hi Mile

I think you are right the record companies will allways have the edge over consumers
Mike from what I heard in your studio and your wife's cd to me it sounds just as good as some
of the record companies stuff out there

Joe allen

[goonkalonkyn]

the Japanese have been making pro audio cds for us since the 90s.
they sell them by the stacks.
redbook standard./ u.s. mfg of cds use the sandwich method from china.

[Old School]

Hi All,
It is not the blank CD which is the problem, ALL consumer CD players are programed to playback a "pressed or replicated CD created with a glass master" with 4X oversampling and to playback a "burned" CD at 2X oversampling.
To explain further,with the higher the oversampling rate, the imaging is better, soundstage is more defined, there is less distortion of subtleties in the music signal, the noise floor is 6DB lower and you hear a reproduction which is unrivalled by all non-oversampling solutions. I believe that the player itself is not capable of determining if a CD is a pressed or burned CD and that the info that tells it to use 4X oversampling is contained in a file at the beginning of all pressed CD's.

Have a blessed day in Christ,
Mike W.

[Old School]

Hi,
Almost forgot to explain. The "PRO" CD's that you buy to burn (from Japan or anywhere else) are encoded with ones and zeros by your burner burning a small hole in the data layer. A pressed CD from a manufacturer encodes the data layer by pressing little "bumps" into it. Hope this makes things a little clearer.

Have a blessed day in Christ,
Mike W.

[Old School]

I got the following from "Advanced Digital Replication Inc." CD/DVD replicates are created during the manufacturing process. In other words, media like a CD/DVD-R does not exist before the process starts. Before the replication process gets underway, the client master is painstakingly evaluated for data corruption. Then, a glass master containing relevant data from client supplied master is created. Replication begins when a flawless glass master is assured. The glass master is used to develop a stamper. The stamper, in turn, is loaded into an Injection Molding machine that creates CD/DVD replicates. The quality of CD replication hinges upon the quality of the glass master's data. Through each successive step, quality and accuracy is consistently monitored to insure each disc is an exact replica or clone of the original. A layer of micro-thin aluminum is applied to the polycarbonate disc. It is then lacquered for additional protection and printed before packaging.