help needed with digital i/o cards, PLEASE! :)

[Jorge378]

Hello all,

I have a question about the tdif/optical cards. How should them show in the Digital I/O Menu? They actually show as "Apogee DIO"

Thank you in advance!

Jorge Dominguez
Buenos Aires, Argentina

[Y-my-R]

Hi Jorge,

They do show up as "DIO-8" for me as well, and work just fine. That's in Mackie OS 5.1 - not sure if they'd show up differently in another OS version.

Sounds like they appear correctly for you. Is there a problem when you're trying to use them?

[Jorge378]

Y-my-R,

Thanks for your reply.
My d8b is running on v3, not v5.1.
I have connected an Alesis HD24 via lightpipe and Alesis BRC (Big Remote Control)
I can see signals in the d8b meters, input channels are routed to tape via FatChannel, but i can't see any signals on the HD24 meters ...
Lightpipe cables are connected ok (out from one side, to In on the other side and vice-versa).
Alesis HD24 ADAt devices id: 1, 2, 3 and they are also configured with those values on the d8b side

Thank you in advance for any ideas

[arjepsen]

First of all, you might want to upgrade to 5.1, since munkustrap made a hack that made this possible after Mackie abandoned the d8b.

Second, is the alesis set up as slave on the lightpipe? You have to make sure one device is master, the other slave.

Third do you have the apogee word clock card in the d8b, or just the stock one?

[Jorge378]

arjepsen,

Thank you for your reply

My d8b has the Apogee word clock and 3 tdif/optical cards
I will try (as soon as i get an external usb floppy drive) to upgrade to 5.1 and apply munkustrap's hack

About your master/slave question ...
I tried these two wiring schemes:
a) midi cables from d8b direct to hd24. BRC (db9) to remote (in) port on HD24
b) midi cables from d8b direct to BRC. And BRC db9 cable to remote port on hd24

I'm not sure if i should use bnc ports, since clock signal goes through optical cables (clock source on hd24 is set to optical)

However, when i use scheme b), and turn on brc, hd24 shows 3 slave devices ids (01, 02, 03). When i use scheme a), hd24 does not show slave devices ids

so, i wouldn't know how to answer your second question ...

[arjepsen]

When you use the digital in/out, one device has to be set as the master clock source, and the other devices as slavese.
Generally it is said that the d8b behaves best when it is master.
If both your devices are set up to be master it wont work, so I would suggest going over the manual for your alesis, and figure out how to set it up as slave. It´s rue that clock signal can be sent over the lightpipe, but if memory serves me rigt this doesnt work too well with the d8b - so if both devices have bnc word clock connnectors, I´d suggest wiring that up.

[Y-my-R]

MIDI sync and Word Clock Sync are two different things. Both are usually necessary. Word Clock Sync is absolutely necessary, when connecting two devices digitally.

Word Clock sync is necessary in order to be able to transfer digital signals over the lightpipe cables - at least without getting pops and clicks, etc. One device needs to be set to master, the other to slave. If both are set to master, in most cases no signal is transferred. That's probably your issue.

MIDI sync is necessary, to make sure the playback (or recording) position is the same on the HD24 and on the D8B. (But if you don't care if the transport controls on the D8B work, and you start/stop on the HD24, then MIDI sync isn't even necessary, as long as you're not planning to do any automation, and just use the D8B to pass audio, and use the plug-ins, etc.). In other words, the MIDI setup you're describing is likely not related to you not getting audio over lightpipe at all. I'd save troubleshooting for that for later, when you have digital audio working.

When it comes to Word Clock sync, if you need a BNC Word Clock cable depends on which device you intend to use as Master:

D8B is Master, HD24 is slave:
BNC Word Clock cable shouldn't be necessary, but you HAVE TO set the HD24 to be Word Clock Slave (...again, this has nothing to do with your MIDI setup), and after doing that, the HD24 needs to say something like "Locked", to indicate that it receives the word clock signal, and is able to sync to it. Make sure that both devices are set to the same sample rate as well (e.g. 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz - the D8B can't do any other Sample Rates than that, so stay away from 88.2 or 96 kHz Sample Rates).

HD24 is Master, D8B is Slave:
BNC Word Clock cable MUST be used, because the D8B can only sync to external digital audio via the BNC Word Clock connector on the Apogee Clock card. If you do it this way, you also have to make sure that the BNC cable is properly terminated at the HD24 (not sure if that device has BNC and if it terminates by default, or if you need to get a "T-Connector" and a "Terminator" to connect on the HD24 end. The Apogee Clock card does Terminate by default (in fact, you can't even turn this off without modifying the card).
After that, you still have to go into the D8B's "Setup" Window, and set Word Clock Sync to "External" and it needs to say "Locked". If it says "unlocked" something about the word clock setup still isn't right.

Long story short, so far it sounds like the Master/Slave settings haven't been done right yet - and maybe you're confusing word clock with MIDI, but that's two different things.

[Y-my-R]

I just looked at a picture of the rear panel of the HD24.

So, you have only a "Word In" and it says "75 Ohm". This means that IF you use a BNC cable for Word Clock sync, then the D8B has to be Master, and the HD24 has to be slave (b/c it only has a BNC Word Clock Input, but no Word Clock Output, that the D8B would need to sync to another device as slave).
In this scenario, you wouldn't have to use a terminator, though, since both, the D8B end, at Apogee Clock Card's BNC OUT, as well as the "Word In" BNC connector at the HD24, are terminated already.

If you'd rather not use a BNC word clock cable, then I don't know if the HD24 can sync to external devices via one of the ADAT/Lightpipe connectors or not. Most devices CAN do that, but some CANNOT (for example, the D8B). You need to check the manual for that.

If the HD24 manual says that it CANNOT sync to an external device via one of the ADAT/Lightpipe inputs, then the D8B MUST be Master and the HD24 MUST be slave - and you MUST use a BNC Word Clock cable from the Apogee Clock cards BNC OUT, to the HD24's BNC "Word In". Then set the HD24 to be "Word Clock Slave" or to "Sync to External" (however this is called on the HD24).

If the HD24 manual says that it CAN sync to an external device via one of the ADAT/Lightpipe inputs, and your D8B has the Apogee Clock Card (as you said), then you have a choice if the D8B or the HD24 should be Master (and the other Slave). You might still have to select which of the ADAT optical inputs on the HD24 would be the "Sync Source" or "Clock Source" in this case. It really depends on the device if something like that is auto-detected or must be set manually. So again, check the manual for the HD24 (I've never used one of those).

Sorry, I know Word Clock sync can be confusing if you haven't dealt with that before. But that's really important for getting audio to work properly, and without artifacts that happen in transfer, like pops and clicks. So, it's worth it to read up on what that is, and how it works a bit more

Best of luck!