Mackie d8b in a hybrid setup

[zetell]

Hello! My first post here on this forum.
I've tried to search for an answer in the database, but could not find an exact answer to my question.

So, after some years in storage I have put my Mackie back on its feet.
My current setup is:
- three AIO-8 cards in the TAPE IN/OUT slots. These are connected to my 24-track tape recorder.
- one OPT-8 card in the ALT I/O slot.
- one APOGEE Clock I/O card in the sync slot.
- one DIGITAL I/O (AES/EBU & S/PDIF) in the DIGITAL I/O slot.

So far, so good. I'm able to record, playback and perform a mixdown to my 2-track recorder.

Finally, moving on to my question:
Is it possible to, simultaneously, route the audio coming from my tape recorder (faders 25-48) to a DAW during playback?
I would like to record and mix as much as possible on the d8b, but the flexibility of a DAW could be useful as well (i.e. editing, etc.)
I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i22 with ADAT and was thinking it may be possible to route 8 tracks at the time over to the DAW (Cubase) via the ALT I/O card with an ADAT cable?

Regards,
Kjetil

[Phil.c]

I do all my mixing on the D8B and HDR but I also use Logic to master down to, and for Midi Instruments, I use an interface, also a Motu 2408 which gives me 8 tracks out of Logic and 8 tracks in, clock out of the Apogee to the 2408 to sync Logic.

[zetell]

Phil,

So I assume you're having 24 tracks from your HDR and into your d8b (and we are talking layer no.2 (25-48 here))?
You say you master down to Logic. Do you mean you transfer all your tracks into Logic, or just a stereo master?

What I'm asking is if its possible to, while I'm monitoring the playback from the tape machine (layer no.2 (25-48)), start my DAW and be able to make a duplicate of, let's say 8 tracks via some kind of ADAT connection in one of the other card slots (remember that my TAPE IN/OUT are occupied by AIO-8 cards so this is not an option)?

[Crash]

I don't see why that wouldn't work....

[Phil.c]

Probably right what Crash said.

I use the Masters out to a 2408, so I can Master down to stereo in Logic, I have 8 line outs from the 2408 into inputs 17-24 so I can have 8 tracks from Logic to the D8b which I can then mix in the desk rather than in Logic.

[captainamerica]

Phil's setup is similar to mine except that I do most of my tracking/editing/mastering in my DAWs.

As for my setup:

I have 3 ADAT cards in the d8b connected to a MOTU 2408 mk3. I also "mirror" the digital outputs of the 2408 to the analog ch on the 2408 ( a feature that you can do internally). I use 2 of the Analog outputs and run them back thru my Avalon 747 compressor and remix them back into d8b for "warmth".

Many possible hybrid setups...best to experiment and let your ears do the walking.

[Y-my-R]

What I'd do to accomplish what you're planning to do is this:

Get three 48 point patchbays.

Patchbay 1:
Wire the analog Tape Outs 1-24 from the D8B to the top row on the back of your patchbay.
Wire the analog Inputs 1-24 of your Tape machine to the bottom row of the back of your patchbay.

Make sure each patchbay module is set to "half-normal" (or "normal" if you prefer - if you don't know what that is, I'd suggest to search for "half-normal" online). The result will be, that the output of your D8B, will be routed to your Tape Machine by default, and when no cable is plugged in.
You can always plug in a cable, and send the signal somewhere else, instead (e.g. your audio interface... more on that in a moment).

Patchbay 2:
Same as patchbay 1, but with the Tape Machine Outs 1-24 on the top row (in the back of the patchbay), and the D8B tape inputs on the bottom row (again, in the back).
Make sure the modules are set to normal/half-normal.

Default routing will be that your tape machine sends the signal to your D8B's tape return inputs.

Patchbay 3:
Wire the analog outputs of your audio interface to the back of the top row.
Wire the analog inputs of your audio interface to the back of the bottom row.
Make sure that this patchbay is NOT normalled or half-normalled, or you'll create a feedback loop.

Get 24 (or 48) patch cables. If you want to send signals between the D8B and audio interface, or the tape machine and the audio interface, it's just a couple of patch-cable connections away (e.g. patch D8B Tape out to Audio Interface analog in, etc.).

It might be a bit pricey to get this many patchbays and the necessary wiring... but then you'll be operating in "Pro" territory.

If you add more external hardware and put it on another patch bay (or open patch points on the ones you already have... e.g if your interface doesn't fill up the 3rd patchbay), things get even more flexible, and you can patch whatever hardware you might want to use into your signal chain via the patchbay.

If you ever got used to using a patchbay, you'll never want to go back. In fact, the main reason why I still use a D8B, is because it has separate XLR and TRS Inputs/Outputs.

With the XLR/TRS combo jacks as found on many newer digital mixers, you can't really put them on a patchbay, if you want to use both, the XLR and TRS connectors (you always have to go to the back of the mixer to change connections - which in my case would mean to open a giant lid on that Argosy desk I have... not practical at all).

That's why I still use the D8B: Being able to use it with (a) patchbay(s)

[Bruce Graham]

I just finished my patch bay. Mind you is is all XLR-3 (I had enough to do that), so there are nmo Half Normals but it cost me very little to do it.
So much better with patch bays! Everything is patchable, well not my Tape I/O as it is AES EBU and with internal routing, who needs to patch!
Soory it's so big!

[Y-my-R]

That's a really impressive rack, Bruce! I can't tell what most of the gear is... I guess I spent too much time in the box, haha (maybe a dbx 160, an SPX and a Roland JV unit? Not sure... everything I did NOT mention looks even cooler, though!!).

I only have a single 16-point XLR patchbay, that is wired to two ends... one end goes to the stagebox in the live room, the other end goes to my pre-amp inputs (12 on the D8B, 2 on my Apollo 8, and 2 go to my Aurora Audio GTQ2). Of course I can only use the XLR input on either, my stagebox in the live room, or on the XLR patchbay in the control room... but I use Mics in either room at times, so I wanted it to be wired to make that possible without any extra patching.

I forgot to say one important thing in my long post above, and that's that "half-normal" is the key to get the signal to your tape machine and to your audio interface simultaneously.

If configured right, this would mean that if nothing's plugged in, the signal coming in from the back row on the top of the patchbay, is going straight to the connector on the bottom row... So far, this would be the same if set up for "normal" or "half-normal."
The difference happens, if you plug in another cable into an "out" on the front of the patchbay (top row). A "normal" setup stops the signal from going to the bottom row, and it will only come out of the patch cable you plugged in on the top row in the front of the patchbay.

A half-normalled setup of the patchbay means that the signal will continue to go to the bottom row when plugging a patch cable into an output on the front panel, but it will ALSO go through the patch cable on the front and into your audio interface. So, this way, you get the signal from the D8B to go to the Tape Machine AND to your Audio interface... by plugging in patch cables to the D8B Tape outs on one patchbay, and connecting the other ends of the patch cables to the audio interface inputs on the other patchbay (PB3).

Most patchbays allow you to set them up as normal/half-normal/thru. Behringer and Samson patchbays have a switch for that. On Neutrik and some other patchbays, you have to remove a module completely and re-insert it in a different orientation to change between normal/half-normal/thru. So, it's better to plan carefully how you'd want this to be set up (e.g. no normalling if the upper and lower row go to the same device for input/output).

So, a half-normal setup on the patchbay is basically a simple "mult" (...a "mult" is usually a way to set up a patchbay to duplicate/split a single signal to multiple output connectors, so you can run multiple signal paths... for example for parallel compression with an uncompressed AND a compressed signal, that you can later mix back together per taste).
In a professional studio, you usually have a couple of jacks on a patchbay reserved for "mults." Often times to split a single input signal up to 4 times or so, to send to different destinations... but anyway, sorry... I think I'm getting carried away. Half-normal is basically a simple "single-mult"

If you're new to patchbays, Zetell, this might be a bit confusing at first, but it's really, really useful in practical use. At least if you work with a lot of outboard gear.

[Bruce Graham]

Hey Y-my-R;

I worked in TV Broadcasting for 35 years where "everythiing" was patched. It was common in out audio CR to have 4 and 5 racks 3/4 full of 1/4" Milatary grade patching. When the 1999 to 2000 change over happen and the dreaded "Computer Crash" was going to happen, I looked after the intercom patching between the 3 studio we where usung for a 24 hour live show and the Globe. As each time zone change (Top of the Clock), what every country/proveince/territors/state etc, would be live to the world. A;; Video, audio and intercom was added to the chain. Not everyone one took part in this as you can imagine. Canada, through the comany I worked for, was very involve. All co-ordinated through the BBC on London.

In order to get the intercom working, worldwide, I designed and patched over 2,000 patch points to make ot work. Lots of work, lots of planning, so much fun. It all worked, I basically walked around from studio to studio, giving the audio guys relief (we where on Air for 24 hours), as all my stuff worked. It was fun.

So, I have been exposed to a great deal of patching. I go back to the days of dBm, rather than dBu or dBv used today (for analog audio), where resistant was important, so everything had to be "terminated" into 600 Ohms and never double terminted or un-terminated.

I designed my room so that it is fully patchable! A lot of fun designing and soldering to make it work the way I wanted it to. I even have drawings (OCD I guess).

The other gear is
Lexicaon 300
Yamaha, SPX 990, SPX 900, SPX 90 (modified for balanced I/O.
DBX 160, and 166x
5 Syntech Compressors
1 WardBeck Audio Distrobution rack (8 DA's with 8 O/P each)
2 Valley People Balanced/Unbalance interface boxes.
1 CD Player (Yes my preferred media)
Bryston Amps in the background for headphones and subs.
1 WardBeck Extended Range VU meter (Very handy for setting exact levels).

Cheers to patching
Bruce