Not happy With Mackie/Loud Tech

[Phil.c]

Ah! The old days no undo's then, mistakes were un forgiving, also for the top pro's, I remember Ken Scott telling me about Ringo punching in just after a two hit bass drum already recorded, all done on the fly, after about three attempts to get it right, Ken hit the record button a fraction of a second too quick and wiped the second hit, it's still on the original Beatle's song.

[RJH_MUSIC]

For me, I think the difference is physical inputs and the the ability to see everything at a glance on the meter bridge and screen. Here is my main problem, i am probably a 80% MIDI function with VSTi's and maybe 4 vocal tracks;

d8b 1
Roland - XV-5080, XV-3080, JV-1080, JD-990, JV-880, U-220, U-110, D-110, JU-06 (x2) D-05, R-70, TD-20, DR-880, RA-50
Korg - Trinity Rack, TRITON Rack, O3R/W, M3R, Minilogue
Kawai - K-4R, K-1R
Roland D-70, JV-1000, XP-80, FA-76, Yamaha MOTIF-XF7

d8b 2
Vocal x 6
Instrument x 8
Vocal Loop back x 2
VSTi x 8

Mackie 32x8 Bus
Keyboards x 8
BUS Output 1-8 from d8b(1)
BUS Output 1-8 from d8b(2)
d8b(1) Master Outs / Control Room Outs
d8b(2) Control Room Outs
2 Spare

All this is connected without having to use a patch bay. So everything is on demand immediately.

Like I said, i probably have way too much gear. But to replace all this with current technology would cost, 2 Studio Live 64S's and a 96 point patch bay or bare bones, 1 Studio Live 64S and a 96 point patch bay. $10,000 approximately.

[captainamerica]

IMHO, tech always fails when innovation is ahead or not aligned (timing?) with the supply and demand rules of corporate gains - balanced against cheap commodity electronics.

For example, I had the luxury of using both the Amiga and Next computer for music/film ....these machine were waaaaay ahead of their times. The Amiga failed mostly because it did not evolve as fast as PC did. Amiga started with much better graphics, O/S and sound than PC but after a few years PC got good graphics and sound.
The Next machine failed because of timing. Their product solved problems that people didn't even know they had. And the solution involved a class of technology which drove up the price beyond what they market could endure. It was just too early for the market.

I would say the d8b suffered from both of these issues

No matter how passion we are about a piece of legacy hardware/software technology, each technological improvement will create the next, stronger or faster technology that we can never compete against unless you have the $$ and resources. We are seeing that with DAWs today and we are seeing that with computational cloud/virtual computing technology.

[RJH_MUSIC]

Very well said, and interesting insight. I'd say you hit right on the head of the nail

[captainamerica]

Thanks RJH, BTW: I can't believe you have 17 Roland synths ! I am a gtr player so my toys fall in that category. Also, looked what I picked up for $30 bucks last week, a nice 1972 Baldwin organ....move aside Rick Wakeman

[doktor1360]

Just another geeks viewpoint here...

... This is the environment of a commercial studio, and no one is making any console (for less than 50 grand) that I know of which can handle all these things like the D8B does.

Concise, and right to the point... and accurate AF. The product designers & engineers behind the D8B n HDR were certainly on the money when they sat down to plan this endeavor. They magically hit all the marks for marketing, leveraging current (at that time) technology and forward-thinking designs for engineering... a win-win from Mackie's viewpoint. And lo and behold, it even turns out in being extensible beyond original design factors in the sense that here we all are on this forum discussing the possibility of implementing the integration of different tech to extend the lifespan of this gear - I don't think that was factored into any business plan by any means *grins*. From my own technical & manufacturing background, that's something you don't often see.

Personally, I don't feel this gear is just another piece of throw-away type tech that's just tossed onto the scrap heap and forgotten, allegedly having outlived it's usefulness. For me, it's turned out to be an incredibly flexible bridge from the old skool 'poly n rust' to the modern digital worlds of recording (OTB/ITB). Anyone's own actual mileage may vary regarding this individual bias - and probably does. I also acknowledge and respect those opinions as well...

I don't agree that the market is too small, by nature almost everyone who records music is a perfectionist and with the equipment sales to home studios now in the billions, I think a significant percentage would buy a revamped D8B offering. Not that much would even have to change. Just a modern MB, better pre amps, better converters and the ability to run 3rd party plug-ins, a usb interface and the D8B would be hard to beat.

BOOM

And there it is. When I first read this, I had to go back and read it again because it struck me as something profoundly accurate. Ideally, the internal pc boards involved with the pre's and converters could theoretically have been re-engineered using better (Onyx pre?!?) hardware tech, better compression, and any I/O including the USB stack likely would have been considered here - the system is pretty modular in regards to it's engineering design, build out and theoretical support in this sense. Plugins are (obviously) an operating system function, but just in terms of following along the theoretic nature of this topic it could logically be assumed that the operating system would have been addressed here as well. The interface having already been established, it certainly could have been altered based on the requirements of any design changes implemented. Yup, damn difficult to top this list of available functionality... particularly at the price point(s) involved...

I don't think production cost is the problem either as most of the audio companies now have their hardware produced in China at unbelievably low costs ( it cost the Chinese less than $200 US to build a 32 channel digital mixer).

More BOOM

I believe Mike is correct here... any manufacturer, anywhere, is gonna build a product EXACTLY as it's spec-d out to be, and it's going to be built against the BOM provided by the engineering/sales company (Mackie, Behringer, SoundCraft, etal) as inexpensively as possible. That's just how business is done, everywhere - management has a fiduciary responsibility to the stock holders of the company. There's usually provisions and/or riders in any contracts for support where cross-referenced substitution of particular parts are NOT licensed (approved), critical to operation. So ultimately the consumer purchases, again, EXACTLY what the engineering/sales company has ordered and paid for to be built - doesn't matter who builds it. The manufacturer with the best bid wins. The final consumer sales and profit numbers have already been crunched by marketing at this point for the bean-counters...

IMHO, tech always fails when innovation is ahead or not aligned (timing?) with the supply and demand rules of corporate gains - balanced against cheap commodity electronics.

Ka-BOOM

The Trifecta... make no mistake, the world is ruled by trade & commerce... end of story...

As if you didn't know this was coming, however here it is anyway:
[Standard Mgmt Disclaimer] - "Your actual mileage may vary..."

[RJH_MUSIC]

There is actually 19, and I forgot to add the Integra 7 which I bought a couple of months ago. The Integra 7 is the first piece of Roland gear I purchased in 33 years that was not worth the money. Same way I feel about the MacBook Pro 16". I am still mad at Apple for discontinuing the MacBook Pro 17". I guess they are too much like Mackie.... LOL

[captainamerica]

well summarized doktor1360 !

[captainamerica]

Well RJH, 19 is a lot !... my main keyboard is my Korg M1 which I really use as a controller.

[Old School]

signwith gospeltheme1.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 5429 times

Mainaccousticroom1.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 5429 times

Isolationbooths1.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 5429 times

Drumroom1.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 5429 times

Controlroom1.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 5429 times

Hi Guys,
I thought I'd share some pics of my studio. Comments and critiques are welcome.