Advice on what to do first with a d8b

[spynmaker]

Thanks for the info Anders!
One more question. Can you do a 32GB CF card for the external drive as well?
Do you replace the external drive with a CF drive? Or do you just put an IDE to CF adapters in the drive cases?
The reason I'm asking is I was wanting to mount the "internal" CF drive where the floppy is and the " external" CF drive where the external already is if possible.

[arjepsen]

It is possible to connect an ide-cf adapter inside the external drive bay.
However, I couldn't get it to work for recording.
Most of these adapters can be put in a slot on the backside of a pc, like this one:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2785

It means you can access the cf card on the backside.
Then you could get something like this one for the floppy bay:
https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/35baycf2ide

[spynmaker]

So you can't remove the external bay and replace it with a CF reader there?

[arjepsen]

sure you can.
What does not work (for me) was attaching the adapter _inside_ the harddrive enclosure for the drive bay.
As long as I connect the adapter directly through the ide-cable to the ide-port on the motherboard, things seems to be fine.
However, I don't think I've seen a "holder" for the adapter that fit's that drive bay. As I mentioned earlier, I found one that fits the size of a floppy bay.

BUT in all honesty, what is the point in having two drives?
Let's say you get three CF cards. You could simply install the HDR OS on all of them.... The OS doesn't really take that much space, and you would power down the machine anyway when switching...

[doktor1360]

So you can't remove the external bay and replace it with a CF reader there?

I've sort of lost track of where this thread has gone since I last read it, but I'm gonna assume you're referring to the HDR here regarding an external drive bay cf reader, and not the D8B's floppy bay...

That all being said, here's what I've determined via a good bit of trial n error regarding both of these pieces of gear and drive media. First, reference the post I made earlier in the thread, explains at least a bit what's going on w the upgraded HDR BIOS. That BIOS is for an HDR (and certain upgraded MDR's I believe) only. So point #1, to clear up something I read here, is that this upgrade is for those machines only, I wouldn't even think about putting it into a D8B. The D8B has it's own in/out system and it's different than the HDR's which is reflected in the BIOS support. This is true of any computer system, especially something like these pieces which in reality are a very advanced micro-controller, not like an ATX PC you'd just drop a drive into and install Windoze or something. The upgraded BIOS also has a corresponding OS release (1.4) that is coded to take full advantage of the new hardware (via the firmware). So, even tho you could theoretically put that chip into a D8B and in the event it 'works', it's highly unlikely it's even gonna be aware of any logical drive extension(s), it's simply not coded into the operating systems executable...

Now, I'm just gonna make a suggested upgrade for each of these machines, one that will provide you with a solid hardware infrastructure that's as up-to-date regarding support tech wise to roll forward with. For the D8B, a great many have already done the basic IDE->CF conversion; that alteration could be implemented internally or 'externally'... with rear panel access. A URL was placed here by arjepsen with a link to said adapter (I copied below). It is, also, the one I would highly recommend be used just for the ease of installing. The same applies for the HDR, but I'll address that in a moment. What I also did, is remove the old 3 1/2 floppy drive and replace it with a Gotek emulator. There's a whole thread here somewhere that covers that quite thoroughly IIRC. I used it once, to install a software I burned the USB stick (D8B OS & SP and HDR OS ware's), and it's doubtful I'd ever have to use it again. But IF the need should arise, I'm glad it's a USB emulator and not that damn floppy...

As far as media, again the suggested media would be a good 4GB compact flash card. I've seen the experimentation here, and what I've found is that it doesn't matter what size compatible media is used, the os format utility only formats the boot media for installation of a pre-determined drive image... if memory serves it was around the upper 3GB range, close to 4GB capacity wise. Theoretically, as long as the heads n cylinders of a drive can be set/jumpered for 32GB (or less) and it keeps the BIOS 'happy', it'll accept the disk... BUT it will only format and use the prior mentioned 4GB capacity...

D8B Upgrade BOM:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304053869582?hash=item46cb05dc0e:g:AnsAAOSwIjVg4AL4
https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/35baycf2ide

As for the HDR, I've attached a quick pic of my upgraded unit for reference... I as mentioned above, it utilizes the same Gotek USB emulator for the same reasoning as the D8B. However the HDR handles it's attached media very differently. I utilized a 32GB compact flash card, due to it being the upper limit that the BIOS will support on the IDE boot chain... regardless of if it's the upgraded version or not. I haven't confirmed whether or not it can be recorded on, and my studio is torn down at the moment or I'd quickly check this for myself. That all being said, the larger volume support is only for the 'external' IDE chain - i.e. the OEM removable hard disk... which is the location I'd prefer to use as it is. I did a fairly involved tear down of the machine itself, it's practically required to remove and reinstall the new tray assembly as a rule. I removed the older assembly, installed the new backplane (drive and front bay) assembly(s), connected up the IDE and power cables and then reassembled the unit. I'd obtain a longer 40-pin IDE cable if possible, just in the event the existing one turns out to be a bit short in length for the job. Keep in mind this is NOT hot-swapping tech, for this application anyway. Below is an example bill of material for all this.

HDR Upgrade BOM:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313039423346?epid=2254448407&hash=item48e29a8772:g:8OUAAOSwk9xefeB3
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304053869582?hash=item46cb05dc0e:g:AnsAAOSwIjVg4AL4
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/uploads/3/7/2/3/37231621/usb_floppy_emulator_1.40i.zip
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373779151061?hash=item5706f938d5:g:O3sAAOSwFcFhMVS6
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XLB0KEQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HLZXH2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013TPI1NU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.newegg.com/p/35G-0097-00004

Bottom line, if you want equipment that boots up every time, is reliable (imagine that!) and is utilizing the latest tech this platform supports... again, this would be my recommendation. This may or may not be ideal for others, but performs exactly as described in my own personal hardware setup. I don't get the least bit concerned when I hit either of the 'on' buttons anymore...

Apologies for the long-winded bandwidth waste for anyone... however, it honestly couldn't be avoided covering this subject...

AND of course, the obligatory transparency statement, as I stand corrected if any of this proves incorrect or misleading:
[Standard Mgmt Disclaimer] - "Your actual mileage may vary..."

Peace

[Y-my-R]

Thanks so much Doktor! This list is REALLY useful, and I'll be upgrading some of my HDR components, soon!

I actually ordered the CF-card controller that goes into a slot opening on the back of the unit (in this case on a D8B) after you suggested this a little further up in this thread.

It arrived, and I figured I'd try installing it into my "old mainboard" D8B rack unit (i.e. old/new type of memory banks and a 166 MHz Celeron), first, since there was someone on here who said that this doesn't work and requires the newer mainboard.

Well, that's wrong! My "old board" Rack unit boots just fine with the CF-card adapter, and a CF card I had been using to boot a different unit with the newer board.

So, CF-conversions should work with ALL D8B rack units, after all. No matter which of the boards you have.

Also, I see you got that Cranborne unit with ADAT out that you mentioned some time back. How's that working out for you? I'm still interested in getting one... it just still hasn't made it to the top of the priority list for me, haha, but I do have an itch for it, haha

[spynmaker]

That’s an interesting setup for the HDR doktor. Can you use the USB slots to move music back and forth from the HDR and say another DAW?

[doktor1360]

That’s an interesting setup for the HDR doktor. Can you use the USB slots to move music back and forth from the HDR and say another DAW?

You could do that, yes... however, it'd be arduous at best. You'd end up having to transfer x number of 1.44Mb files... music projects tend to be in the Gigabyte range at this point, so... while doing that, you'd have to track what music went where on one of 0-99 possible image files on the USB, and each of those are, again, limited to 1.44 megabytes... and then you'd have to iterate through x GB payload to complete file transfers of only 1.44Mb of data for each instance (shoot me now, please). You'd also need an emulator & the Windoze program to support it on the target machine (yikes)...

FTP man... faster and more reliable... or just install 128GB SSD's in an external assembly, and just swap drives in n out. You should be able to access any disk, when mounted via USB reader or whatever, in just about any appropriate file explorer application (depending on the OS platform used)... either of these methods is clearly a much better solution to file transfer than the Flintstonian approach of using multiple floppy images (ad nauseum). It's like this, if I wanted to put a swimming pool into my backyard, I'd start digging... but with a backhoe, and not a teaspoon... ya dig?!? *winks*

But hey, as I've always said, whatever floats yer boat and gets the job done...

For transparency... yeah, here it is :
[Standard Mgmt Disclaimer] - "Your actual mileage may vary..."

Peace

[doktor1360]

Thanks so much Doktor! This list is REALLY useful, and I'll be upgrading some of my HDR components, soon!

I actually ordered the CF-card controller that goes into a slot opening on the back of the unit (in this case on a D8B) after you suggested this a little further up in this thread.

It arrived, and I figured I'd try installing it into my "old mainboard" D8B rack unit (i.e. old/new type of memory banks and a 166 MHz Celeron), first, since there was someone on here who said that this doesn't work and requires the newer mainboard.

Well, that's wrong! My "old board" Rack unit boots just fine with the CF-card adapter, and a CF card I had been using to boot a different unit with the newer board.

So, CF-conversions should work with ALL D8B rack units, after all. No matter which of the boards you have.

Also, I see you got that Cranborne unit with ADAT out that you mentioned some time back. How's that working out for you? I'm still interested in getting one... it just still hasn't made it to the top of the priority list for me, haha, but I do have an itch for it, haha

All good, man... just shoot up a flare if you can't locate any of that stuff, I might have some of those things sitting on a shelf here. I'll have to agree with ya, compact flash is easy enuff to integrate with this equipment - as the boot media. Personally, I couldn't get the HDR to consistently record on CF media, even in the odd occurrence it would pass the read/write test battery. Crazy shit man... I gave up, because everything I've read up to this point indicates its the CF adapter cards... they don't implement PIO4 mode... that's the issue that can't be mitigated for disk writes in 'real time' - that's about as close as I could derive, so I turned tail and continued on in a different direction. I wasn't that interested in having to modify an adapter card, you start to hit the point of diminishing returns and that was it for me. I have a coupla articles related to it, if I can find them in the abyss known as my bookmark library I'll post them up...

The Cranborne R8, that piece of equipment is everything I've been looking for... I've only scratched the surface. I'm in the process of building some 500 series modules (pre's, dynamics, eq, compression, etal)... the equipment @ https://www.diyrecordingequipment.com is outstanding in quality, and I can build some world class equipment for a fraction of the cost of similar commercially available gear... and know that I built these units myself. Their support is outstanding, beyond anything I've ever experienced. The R8 itself provides an exceptionally stable, programmable word clock, it's really helpful & nice to have available. USB for integration w 2 DAW interfaces. The S/PDIF interface is important for me, I plan on integrating a Universal Audio Ox amp top box and USB currently isn't available on the OX... only the physical port with 'to be added later' support (LOL - sighs). I don't have a 'live room' per se anymore, so the OX works out for me to be the right tool for the job at hand. I considered a Suhr RL, Two Notes Torpedo Studio... looked at plethora of other gear before committing myself the Ox workflow integration. It's already budgeted. I can still use and mic up my Marshall JCM900 1960a cab, it's just not something that's viable in a lot of situations at this point for me where I can just light it up and run it hard (sadly). But to the point, that Cranborne R8 unit is definitely turning into the hub of my project studio environment. The flexibility is more than I tasked out for the here n now, but I'm pretty geeked to have it all at my disposal. If you get the opportunity and have the $$$ available, spring for it - I was actually able to negotiate a great deal with a Reverb vendor - that's a story for another day...

I'll add to that thread of displaying workspaces and display some pics of my reworked project studio there when completed... probably just after the New Year rings in... stay tuned if you're interested...

[spynmaker]

Thanks for all the info again guys!
So just to be clear, arjepsen says you can record audio on the CF card. Doktor said he doesn't believe you can record audio. Has anyone tested this yet?
Also, if you can use SSD's in the external side of the HDR, can you just use the old drive bay that's already there and just load 32GB SSD's in the drive cases?
Just curious, trying to keep the teardown simple if at all possible.