D8b in 2022, has still sense?

[madcarb1]

What di you think about using d8b in 2022? Do you still work with it or you do everything in the box?

[captainamerica]

yep....still in production after 20 years...remember, it's all just tools to help you make music.

[Bruce Graham]

A very usueful tool!

[Y-my-R]

I’m guessing that you mean the question mostly like an “is the audio quality of the D8B still good enough for today’s world” - and as much as I often post on here about what I do to avoid the D8B’s built in converters or pres, etc. - the D8B is ABSOLUTELY good enough to use to write/record/mix new/modern music in great quality.

Do some newer mixers and audio interfaces have better converters and pres than the D8B? Yes, of course - time didn’t stand still over the past 20 years… but the D8B’s built-in stuff was used to record lots and lots of great sounding albums (mostly during the first decade after it’s release, I’d think). If you think that these albums now sound terrible and unlistenable, then you shouldn’t use the D8B… but if you can’t tell which albums from 2002-2012 were done with a D8B, then it can’t be all that terrible.. and I’m sure there are some albums you like, that were recorded on a D8B

Also, once you’re digital, digital is digital and the quality doesn’t change until you convert back (at least if you don’t use any of the built-in FX in the D8B). So, in theory, if you were to add a good Analog-to-Digital converter on the way into the D8B, and also a good Digital-to-Analog converter on the way out of the D8B (and do not use the built-in FX in the D8B), the audio quality is as good as the converters and doesn’t have much to do with the D8B itself. What you still get, is the D8B’s routing and monitoring flexibility, though… and that in itself, is already worth something (and the main reason why I’m using it).

I’m also not trying to suggest to stay away from the built-in FX in the D8B… I just tried to make my point about what digital audio is and how it works. In theory (not really in practical use), a digital signal that enters a device on one end, “could” still come out “bit-perfect” (i.e. completely unchanged) on the digital output on the other end. With a complex device like the D8B, the signal likely won’t be “bit-perfect” on the way out, but very close to it and not really audibly “worse.”
IMO, the channel FX (Dynamics, EQ, etc.) in the D8B aren’t great, but usable, nontheless. Usable utility EQ. For the main voices in a song (vocals, guitars, kick, snare, etc.), I’d probably use either better outboard gear or plug-ins for the dynamics (and better EQ), rather than the channel FX… but as supplemental channel FX, I think they’re decent and usable.
When it comes to the plug-in FX… it really depends. For example, I don’t think the D8B has a decent reverb to use on any “prominent" voices in the mix… the best reverbs in the D8B, still sound like a mid-class digital reverb from the 90s. But hey… some people pay premium prices for stuff like an Alesis MicroVerb, because the lo-fi verbs in those, are somehow en-vogue again. So, use the FX creatively, and maybe you’ll get the D8B FX to become fashionable again, too, haha.
Having said all of that… I occasionally use the “Vocal Studio” plug-in in the D8B to create vocal FX for the background. For example, that “gals and boys” (or whatever it’s called) preset, can make a great large “choir” if you run it over an already harmonized multi-channel vocal bus

So, IMO, the D8B doesn’t have EVERYTHING you need for a modern professional production… but it can get you pretty close, and with a few more plug-ins or outboard equipment, you can still pull off a professional and modern sounding mix.

But all of this is only about the sound quality… there’s SO many more factors to consider, to determine if it makes sense to make the D8B (or a mixer with similar capabilities) part of your setup. For example:

- It definitely makes sense in a studio that records bands. The workflow just gets faster and the FX and monitor routing etc. can happen like second nature, once you’re used to the mixer. At least for me, in the DAW it’s always mental acrobatics, to think through my signal flow… whereas on a mixer, it’s kinda predetermined, and I usually know what FX my auxes send to etc. In a DAW… not so much, I get lost more often and have to trace my signal flow, to figure out what’s happening.

- If you’re a home-studio guy with a guitar, a synth and a vocal mic, then the D8B is total overkill, and will not make your home-recordings into a successful album. IMO, if you’re not filling up at least 16-20 channels on the D8B, I’d suggest to get something smaller (I’d personally even feel guilty about wasting electricity, if unnecessarily running a huge mixer like that, for something that could be accomplished with a simple audio interface that runs off of your laptop battery).

- If you’re a synth guy with 10+ synths, then the D8B would already make sense, so you can just connect all that up at the same time.

- The layout of your workstation is also an important consideration, though. In my case, because I do quite a bit of song-writing with synthesizers, I need a keyboard right in front of me and below the computer monitor - not a mixer. However, when I want to mix an otherwise finished song, then I want the mixer right in front of me. What I did to overcome this, is to have two stations/seats in my setup. The D8B and my “big” speakers are in the middle… but my “song-writing station” is off to the side. And when I write, I usually don’t even turn the D8B on.
So, even for a “many synths” guy, the D8B might not be the “centerpiece” of their setup (if it’s in the way). In most cases, you’ll just have to find the right compromise between a mixing and writing setup, to have it all in reach from one chair (I just had the luxury of space, so I went with two seats).

- On the other hand, the restrictions the use of a mixer brings with it, can help organize your workflow. For example, if I run ITB sessions, I often don’t have the discipline to keep my track count and crazy routing ideas under control, and end up with a giant mess of a DAW project when it’s time to mix. My mixes then often get complicated to manage, since the project has gotten so complicated. When using an external, physical mixer, I usually already have an idea how I will “budget” for my 24 tracks and where I’ll put what… then work with busses and groups in the DAW, to make the best use of the return channels on the D8B (e.g. I usually have several guitar tracks in the DAW, send them to a stereo buss in the DAW, and send that stereo buss to two channels on a Tape Return card.)
So, just because I’m using a mixer, my DAW sessions usually stay a little simpler, since I can’t just do all kinds of crazy things, but need to stick to the 24-outs limitation. So, that reduction of flexibility, is really a blessing in disguise, IMO.

Long story short, IMO, the D8B absolutely still makes sense, if it makes sense to have a large mixer in your setup, or if any of the considerations above (or the many arguments I didn’t think of now) make sense for you.

Even shorter version of the story: IMO, the D8B makes as much sense as other large mixers and it sounds good enough for today’s world. If you don’t need a large mixer, you don’t need the D8B. That’s at least my 2 cents.

[TySTUDIO]

Hello,

I'm still using my board after 23 years. I love it....but I do not use the converters and only use the pre's when I need to.. I have a rack of outboard pre's and a converter. So...I guess you could say I use the board mainly as a big patchbay... but I do use some of the plug ins and onboard compressors...which I feel are underrated. I send my 8 outboard pre's in through the 8 aux inputs digitally and then go digital out of the board to a mix down computer....so my signal stays digital from my Lynx converter all the way to mix down. I get great results that way (at least my clients think so).

So I guess it comes down to this....if you are going to use just the board itself you probably are compromising a bit on what might considered to be todays sound quality possibilities....but If you use the board in conjunction with some newer options you should be able to create some great stuff.

Kevin

ps....If you would like more detail on how I patch everything feel free to ask.

[Crash]

I rode my d8b as far as I could with an HDR, made a boat load of records over the years with that combo. Lots of outboard gear and all the plugins on the console. It is a formidable set up even today. No matter what gear you have, the engineer will always be the weakest link in the chain in my opinion. I retired my d8b for the dxb a couple of years back due to track counts and sample rate restrictions, but I could set it back up tomorrow and be off to the races if need be.

As for sound quality, it all gets bounced down to mp3s anyway....

Copy of RecordingSignalChain.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 1774 times

[Phil.c]

As Crash says, the weekest link is the engineer, I've heard some crap stuff with top end gear..... and some top end stuff with a d8b and Hdr

I'm still using d8b and HDR, also Logic and outboards

[Old School]

Hi all,
For me, the problem with all the new stuff is latency. It's extremely difficult to do overdubs if you're hearing an echo all the time. I've seen engineers blogs about it would take a really fast processor and that the converters are slow and it's essentially a hardware problem. I say that this is total BS. My D8B and HDR were designed in the previous century and with a 433 Mghz processor! I have measured the total latency round trip through the converters and its .4 milliseconds. Thats right, POINT FOUR, not 40, not 4, but .4 milliseconds. How did they achieve this in the year 1998 and they can't do it now? In my opinion the offerings of the console and recording equipment are controlled by other big corporate interests (like Record companies), because while the quality of sample rate may have gone up, needed features are being dropped like tape ins and outs and lightpipe connectivity (usb and dante cannot and never will hold a candle to lightpipe for latency). They are scared that some talented person with a home studio will produce hit records and this is competition which cannot be allowed. People get too focused on the quality of the sampling (which few, if any can notice a difference) and not the quality of the engineer, because if you have the talent, you can make a recording equal or better in quality to any commercial offering with the D8B and if you don't, then even a $200,000 Rupert Neve 5088 will not help you. For production recording of bands there is nothing out there today under 50K that can do what the D8B and HDR can do, nothing.

Have a blessed day,
Mike

[Phil.c]

[madcarb1]

This is helpful, i only use it with 2 2408 mk3 Motu and 24 adat channels,no external gear. Sometimes i use it as channels summer, i send on It only the busses of the daw's mixer and then i use the d8b to level only those busses. Maybe for me it has no much sense but i love mixing with real faders, i don't want to disconnet the mixer, i like it a lot, but maybe working in the box for my setup should be a better solution, sadly