no MIDI input, timecode display not moving

[mazzytwo]

Hi,

I bought a second hand d8b, maxed out with many I/O cards.

As i try to do automation, or try start/stop/play, nothing is moving, the timecode display is not moving.

I send MTC from midi out (unitor) from Logic Pro 9.1.1 to the d8b breakout MiDI cable IN.

I opened the MIDI connector to check the wiring described in the diagram on sonido, everything is soldered correctly.

So why doesn't the d8b follow the MIDI MTC signal, or even on internal clock doesn't do anything with the transport controls or timecode dislpay?

Any tips?

Thanks

M.

[Phil.c]

Have you got a flashing “?” On the d8b, have you set wordclock to external and are you using an Apogee clock card?

[mazzytwo]

Hi Phil,
I have an Apogee word clock card, the d8b is slaved to the word clock out of my RME Multiface word clock out.
In the display i see no flashing '?' , the d8b is in sync with the external word clock.

I discovered when I press the transport control buttons on the d8b, i can see an incoming MIDI message in Logic, but nothing happens. So the MIDI out connection from d8b gives a signal.

But still no MIDI in to the d8b

[Phil.c]

A flashing ? Means your not locked so that’s a good sign, I run Logic transport but with a master clock and with a Moto 2408.

Have you tried making the d8b the master and Logic as the slave, you will need to set the d8b to internal.

Are you using a wordclock cable from Logic to the Apogee card?

[Y-my-R]

The original post sounded like there's no mix-up with the types of sync that are necessary, but the way the thread progressed, sounds like there's some confusion sneaking in. For clarity, here's an excerpt from something I had posted in another thread, regarding the different types of "sync" the D8B uses/needs:

Word Clock: Sync protocol that makes sure your digital bits are aligned. Has nothing to do with "song position" or the counter on the D8B. Sample rate needs to be correct for this to work right. Only one master, everything else needs to be sync slave.
New note: If there's no questionmark appearing in the display, then this at least does not seem to be the reason why the SMPTE display doesn't move... and you already confirmed that the D8B syncs to external clock. So, the word clock sync seems to be done right, and there shouldn't be a need to change the master/slave settings for the issue your describing.

MIDI Machine Control (MMC): These are Transport commands such as Play/Stop/Record - usually sent over MIDI.
New Note: These don't make the SMPTE display move by themselves, as they're only momentary commands (i.e. the "stop" MMC MIDI signal will only be transmitted once, after pressing the stop button). This needs to work in order to use the transport buttons on the D8B, but doesn't have anything to do with "keeping" the SMPTE display moving, once it moves.
Good to know, that you can see that the D8B does transmit something, when pressing one of these buttons (i.e. MIDI in indicator in Logic).

MIDI Time Code (MTC) and SMPTE: Sync protocol that relates to song position. Has nothing to do with "digital" sync like word clock above. Can be sent via MIDI or Audio (only MIDI in the D8B's case). The frame rate has to match on all ends, or it may either not sync at all, or start drifting and then causing problems (could look like a freeze on the D8B).
The D8B NEVER EVER creates this type of sync signal (sounded like you think it does, somewhere above). This ALWAYS needs to come from the recorder (e.g. in this case the Alesis HD24) or the computer.

New Note: At face value, it also sounds like you set this up correctly, too, if Logic is indeed sending MTC to the MIDI output that goes to the D8B. On the Unitor 8, does the MIDI Out LED light up solid for the port that goes to the D8B (with no other MIDI, like notes or automation data being sent there?)
If so, then it seems that the Unitor 8 should really be outputting MTC... but Logic can be a little tricky with that, sometimes. So, if this LED is NOT lit up solid, then you'd have to look into what's preventing the MTC signal from coming out of Logic and going to the D8B.

If that MIDI out LED on the Unitor IS solid, and you haven't done so, yet, I'd try to delete the startup session on the D8B, and create a new one, to see if this makes any kind of difference. It could be some sort of setting from the previous user in the D8B (e.g. automation disabled or some other sort of corruption).

Anyway, I haven't had to troubleshoot the MTC/SMPTE sync in some time (and didn't even turn my D8B on in a long while), so if you're stuck, I can take another look what else may need to be in place for this to work. But from everything else you said in this thread, Mazzytwo, you sound like you know what you're doing, so... seems like you're on the right track and will just have to figure out where this is stuck.

Best of luck in the meantime!

[mazzytwo]

Hi Y-my-R ,

Yes, the word clock sync runs perfectly, no issues, daisy chained with high quality coax BNC cables from master to d8b.

MMC works perfectly: in Logic i can play, stop, record, rewind, fast forward by pressing the buttons on the d8b.

MTC is being sent out continuously by Logic on Unitor port 1 : the LED is constantly lit yellow in playback.

I also changed all frame rates from 24 to 30 in the MTC signal, nothing happens in the d8b.

I didn't know the d8b couldn't generate MTC by itself, internally, so if nothing is hooked up via MIDI, you cannot use the automation timeline as I understand from your explanation?

I also created a new Startup Session and reset the Template, nothing yet.

Maybe there is a problem in the MIDI card, fitted in the d8b CPU, or still a bad connection in the MIDI input cable.

I'm going to check the soldering in this cable again.

Thanks both Y-my-R and Phil c. for your help, it's appreciated!

M

[mazzytwo]

OK, i tried everything, also connecting a drum computer that sends MTC to the d8b.

Nothing works, I guess the MIDI card in the CPU is faulty.

I will use the d8b without automation then.

I consider this post closed.

[Y-my-R]

I did the following tests, today:

1. Made sure the D8B syncs to my go-to DAW, Studio One. It does (SMPTE display moves/syncs to Studio One).

2. Tried to do the same thing in Logic, and couldn't get it working. Even though I did set the Settings/MIDI/Sync, settings, and went to the "MIDI sync project settings from there" and activated the port the D8B is connected to, for clock, MTC and MMC (and messed around with the settings a bit). No success.
I also remembered that back in the day, Logic always wanted to start the SMPTE code at 01:00:00:00, instead of 00:00:00:00 and wouldn't run, until entering an offset to start the playback an hour earlier. But I checked for that just now, and it doesn't seem to be like that in current versions of Logic anymore (I remember it being like that around Logic 4 or 5).

Long story short, I'm having the same symptom with Logic (10.7.0) as you do, but have the D8B syncing to the same setup (same cables, D8B and everything... and I'm also using a Unitor 8) without problems. Not sure what the issue is.

I do have a sort of "hacked" Unitor 8 control panel and driver installed, while Logic seems to have its own driver for the Unitor as part of the software. Maybe they get in each other's way...? Do you have any such driver-hack installed, so you can use the Unitor with other apps, or do you use it "stock" and only with Logic? (AFAIK, the Unitor is otherwise no longer recognized in current versions of macOS).

Anyway... I haven't heard of those MIDI cards going bad. What could cause it, though, is if there is an IRQ conflict in the BIOS. Did you make sure to make all the BIOS settings per the instructions on the database?

[Bruce Graham]

Hi Mazzytwo;

Check the BIOS in the db8. The setting must be extact for you Motherboard type. There are IRQ setting that you should pay attention to. One or two of them have to do with MIDI in and out I beleive.

Bruce

[mazzytwo]

Thanks guys!

I have set IRQ 10 to 'Legacy' in the BIOS and now the MIDI works!!

My SMPTE display is moving and I can write automation

Thanks for this golden tip

Marius