Whoa.... Help appreciated!

[rcb4t2]

Hey guys....

A little introduction. I run a recording studio in New Orleans, LA. Perusing the local Craigslist the other day, I saw a D8B for sale. I was only vaguely aware of this board, so I did some googling. Motor faders.... limited hui mode...... what's this then, Marc Girard's project? Whoa. Maybe this thing's worth getting....

The buyer informed me that the board wouldn't boot because of a 43 error. More googling. Seems like something I could fix with basic knowledge of the computer system that runs the D8B. I'm pretty computer savvy so I figured I'd go take a look.

Board looked to be in pretty good condition, had some expansion cards, included the CPU and the huge freaking cable.

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End introduction
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Alright, so step one was buying an old-style din5 keyboard so I could hit "F1" or DEL and reconfigure the BIOS. So far so good, finally I get past the DOS screens and into the v3 mixer interface. However, I didn't realize the board didn't come with the console data cable. $8 and a few days later here we are....

I can now get into the mixer interface (computer) and the board itself it synced up with the software - huzzah!

Here begins the actual question(s)!

So my faders are a little crazy it seems. Almost all of them seem to work normally, but there are a few bad apples. Two in particular (ch2 and 18) prefer to be stuck to the bottom of their run. Sometimes, though, they want to rattle against the top of their run (rattle.... vibrate....?). Now actually more of them used to be crazy too. I have been running the fader calibration..... like 15 times now. I think the workout is good for them. Some of them have settled down - now fader 2 is the major offender while 18 is intermittent. Now this problem is coupled with another one.... sometimes moving a fader will make several other (on-screen) faders jump around. It doesn't seem to affect the hardware fader.

Okay, so.... I've searched around some and found some similar problems.... but I'm making a thread because I really just need some hand-holding. This product and its interface are totally new to me and I'm just not versed in the system yet.

I have opened the board and done a cursory inspection. Everything looks fine... the ribbon cables seem to all be securely connected. I have not tried removing, cleaning, and replacing them yet - should I?

Really, I wanted to start with a fresh wipe of the CPU and see where that leaves me. Where the hell do I find a floppy drive in 2011, though? Any way to FTP in a fresh install, or use the onboard floppy drive to write the install disks, then turn around and re-install the OS with them?

I use a fairly modern MacPro... any hints on finding a floppy drive that I can use with the MacPro?

I'm just not sure where to start. It's clear to me that this forum and the sonido-7 page are excellent resources, and I am thankful for them, but, again, I could use some guidance here.... thanks!

(oh and Marc, hurry up! )

[Casey_Pittman]

I don't believe you can do an install via the ethernet port, but you might try a few libraries or possibly the college there in New Orleans to see if they have a computer with a floppy drive stashed someplace.

As for the sticky fader will it jump into place if you kinda give it a nudge or is it not budging at all?

I think a fresh install is the way to go for this board.

If you have no luck finding a computer with a floppy drive this could be a solution:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4567936&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE

-Casey

[rcb4t2]

Thanks, Casey. I just ordered some blank 3.5" disks. I am hoping that I can put the install files onto the D8B computer via ethernet/ftp, then put those onto the discs from the D8B desktop, then power down, and use the newly-written disks as install disks. I know that sounds convoluted but...... if I can move data to the D8B computer via ethernet, I should be able to again move that data from its hard drive to the floppy drive, right? Anyway, the logistics of that procedure are the least of my concerns. I'll find a floppy drive one way or another.

I just wanted to point out that.... when I move the "naughty" faders, the EQ settings also jump around, as well as the pan pots.... weird. It seems like there's a short in there somewhere or some kind of wire crossed that's confusing the data.

I tried pulling the console data cable while it was turned on, to see if that would release the stuck faders..... no dice.

Casey - some faders are "stuck until touched", while others are always stuck. With the machine off, or in boot up, of course, they are all "free" - it's not until I load the OS that I have the issue..

re: the console data cable - I just ordered a standard db25-db25 male-female cable.... was this wrong? Seems to me it wouldn't matter either way, but maybe there's something special I don't know about? I've never seen the "real" console data cable - they appeared to be normal DB25's.

The DB25 on the mixer for console data doesn't feel very good when I plug it in... feels loose /worn. Maybe something there.

I want to try a clean install of the OS (and maybe mixer firmware update? not to v5 just to the latest 3.... mine reads 3.0 right now on boot) before I do any more with the physical hardware.

*sigh* I thought this was going to be a fun project lol....

[rcb4t2]

Hmmm.... I'm thinking more and more about this console data cable I used. I just ordered a cheapo printer cable from Amazon. What's it supposed to be? Is it meant to be normal DB25.... 110ohm? I'm thinking if the shielding is different or something that could be shorting data? I dunno, it's late now. I guess I'll try reinstalling the OS first. Then I'll swap the fader bank that's having the most trouble with one that has no issues (knock on wood) and see if the problem follows the board. That will probably tell me a lot right there.

[synthjoe]

Great purchase, congratulations!
I think the data cable is definitively worth a closer loook. The normal serial cable is not a wire-through, instead, control and Rx/Tx lines are crossed, so I wouldn't use is unless confirmed it is identical to the original one. Plus, the criss-crossing is meant for a single serial connection, but the D8B has two serial connections going through the same cable. It might even damage some circuitry, so I suggest you hold using this as long as it is not verified to be good (maybe it's already late)... However, one of the serial lines is for the DSP and other such operations, while the other is for the controls/displays. So if both seem to operate more or less correctly (e.g. effects are set up fine and all functions process audio more or less to the settings you make), then your cable might be fine.

On the other hand I had the jumping controls issue with intermittent faders, i.e. the digital version of a 'scratchy' audio fader. Maybe swapping the fader boards would confirm this - but I think a fader replacement or a good deep clean and relubrication of such old faders is due anyways...

[rcb4t2]

Thanks Joe! Sorry, could you please elaborate on the cable? How do you mean by wire-through? Like I mentioned, I don't know what the control cable "should" be. If it's a non-standard pinout or grounding scheme or something maybe I can just roll my own.

Things basically work, but beyond the jumpy faders, moving the bad faders will change pans slightly, or the fat channel settings. It really seems as if data is either being incorrectly routed or control voltages (or equivalent) are being sent where the shouldn't be sent. The PCBs all look fine, although I haven't broken out the multimeter or anything, just visual inspection. All ribbon cables seem tight - I even pulled and reconnected all the ones between the fader daughter boards and what I believe is the "brain board".

Unfortunately I don't have any adat I/O's so I haven't tested the audio side of things yet. I suppose I could just feed it analog and see what happens.

Yes, the digital version of a scratchy audio fader lol! That's exactly what it's like haha - and why I thought some exercise is what it needed. This board has apparently been in storage for months if not years before I got it. What, specifically did you do to fix your jumpy faders? I've heard everything from complete chip replacement down to OS reinstall, so it's hard to diagnose or know where to start. Yes I will swap the 1-8 and 9-16 fader boards and see what happens.

[synthjoe]

For the faders: I have disassembled one or two and - I cannot post pictures here and don't feel like posting and linking, so take my word for it - found true miracles in them (dirt, dust, everything you can think of - and beyond). If you're handy with fine mechanics, you can try that (desoldering/disassembling/cleaning/lubricating/reassembling/resoldering - times 24, sounds like fun 'innit? ), or get a handful of replacement faders.

Cable is a straight wire through, I've just measured it specially for you this afternoon! Meaning that connections are: pin1-pin1, pin2-pin2, etc. on both ends. Make sure you take a good note of pin1 of both the femaile and the male connector! Shield is separate from any pin. A good extension cable (serial or parallel, all 25 pins wired) should do, regular serial cables (and hence printer cables likely, too) have a different pinout, see here. The fact that plugins are loaded 'correctly' (audio test would be best to confirm this) and that controls work more or less orderly indicate that the cable is likely the right kind, but some measurement would not harm. Maybe it's too long, you could try a shorter version, or best (and least attractive) would be to roll your own from a run of flat ribbon cable and clip-on IDC (insulation displacement connector) DB25 ends. Then you're sure to get a straight wire-through solution - maybe just for the sake of testing.

Thinking of it, both motor fader actuator and control (rotary and fader) read-out voltages are derived from the PC style PSU +12V supply, so you might want to check that in the CPU box and its wire connections throughout.

[Petersueco]

I cannot post pictures here and don't feel like posting and linking

Hi Joe,

Actually you don't have to link the pics to the posts, you just have to upload the image from your computer to the board using the Upload attachment function. It's very easy.

It would be cool to see that fader maintenance procedure in pictures BTW!!!

Peter Holmquist.

[rcb4t2]

Thanks Joe for all the extra effort! I noticed from the pinout you posted that some pins don't run straight through, while others join other pins! Seems to be a recipe for confused signals to me. My issue does seem like info is going where it shouldn't! I think I'll have to try a different cable - so would a regular db25 meant for analog audio be appropriate? I don't mind rolling my own, but I can get one for about $30 for audio... (I'll need a female-female adapter)

My 3.5" disks are en route so I'll try reloading the OS first.

[synthjoe]

I noticed from the pinout you posted that some pins don't run straight through, while others join other pins! Seems to be a recipe for confused signals to me.

Agreed. Good that you've checked.

would a regular db25 meant for analog audio be appropriate?

As long as each pins are connected straight through, it should be fine. I don't like adapters, but if you cannot get a M/F cable, then obviously that's what you'll have to use.

Good luck, I'm interested in the results!